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apple spyder obama, from a womb with cat disease ([info]a_chr0i) wrote,
@ 2009-10-28 15:57:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
GUYS- i have to write as paper on an issue i am passionate about, and i am passionate about how bad twilight is. to be precise, about the unhealthy relationship between bella and edward, and the unrealistic expectations that come from the book. PLEASE POST YOUR THOUGHTS, INSIGHTS, AND ANY SPECIFICS YOU CAN THINK OF IN THE COMMENTS.


(Post a new comment)


[info]speedforce
2009-10-28 08:02 pm UTC (link)
i will come back with more specific examples, but this is what i offered on my friends facebook note about twilight: "How have I missed this? I will keep my thoughts short and sweet. Bella Swan is one of the worst female "protagonists" in recent history. Not only is she physically weak (baw I know she gets stronger in Breaking Dawn), but emotionally and logically weak, too. From throwing herself off a cliff just to hear Edward's voice to throwing away all future aspirations/dreams for the sake of love. You can say that young girls are smart enough to know that this is fantasy vs reality, but I've seen the Twilight fandom on the internet. That is not the case. I would say more, but I'm so late to the party. :(

PS. This is coming from someone who has read all four books -- an action that was tantamount to stabbing myself in the eye with glass."

(Reply to this)


[info]speedforce
2009-10-28 08:02 pm UTC (link)
seriously, i have so much hate for bella/edward. but i must nap.

(Reply to this)


[info]callahan_can
2009-10-28 08:05 pm UTC (link)
haha yes I endorse this!

The part that I always cite as an example of the toxic relationships is when-- is it book 2 or 3?-- he DISABLES her car so she can't leave her house and go see Jacob. Seriously. Girl goes to start her car, it won't start, why not? Oh because your creepy controlling boyfriend has decided you can only go where he wants you to go and see who you wants to see, ohh..

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]mbmargarita
2009-10-28 08:06 pm UTC (link)
lolol pretend that was not a character journal.

Holly would eat glass before she would read TWILIGHT.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]rubbersoul
2009-10-28 08:05 pm UTC (link)
the time he takes the engine out of her car so she can't see someone he dislikes -- WAAAY abusive and controlling

constantly trying to protect her and "do what's best for her" because she can't take care of herself/she needs him -- infantilizing her

her not having any real interests or life outside of him -- getting married to him instead of going to college, turning into basically a zombie when he leaves

her idolizing of him, her belief that he has no flaws, is perfect is insane and creepy and unrealistic, her obsession with his physical appearance

(and i haven't even read any of it. this is just stuff i know from brief excerpts and being told, so i'm sure there's more shit.)

(Reply to this)


[info]flyspeck
2009-10-28 08:08 pm UTC (link)
he watches her sleep from a tree outside. end of story.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]speedforce
2009-10-28 08:10 pm UTC (link)
how romantic~~

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]rubbersoul
2009-10-28 08:10 pm UTC (link)
lol basically. stalking is true love~

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]speedforce, 2009-10-28 08:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]speedforce, 2009-10-28 08:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]speedforce, 2009-10-28 08:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wentsch, 2009-10-28 08:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wentsch, 2009-10-28 08:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wentsch, 2009-10-28 08:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wentsch, 2009-10-28 08:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rubbersoul, 2009-10-28 08:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]speedforce, 2009-10-28 08:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rubbersoul, 2009-10-28 08:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]speedforce, 2009-10-28 08:19 pm UTC
LOL OH I KEEP FINDING MORE - [info]speedforce, 2009-10-28 08:20 pm UTC
Re: LOL OH I KEEP FINDING MORE - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:26 pm UTC
Re: LOL OH I KEEP FINDING MORE - [info]speedforce, 2009-10-28 08:29 pm UTC
Re: LOL OH I KEEP FINDING MORE - [info]rubbersoul, 2009-10-28 08:32 pm UTC
Re: LOL OH I KEEP FINDING MORE - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:32 pm UTC
Re: LOL OH I KEEP FINDING MORE - [info]nuit, 2009-10-28 11:20 pm UTC
Re: LOL OH I KEEP FINDING MORE - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]flyspeck, 2009-10-28 08:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]speedforce, 2009-10-28 08:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]flyspeck, 2009-10-28 08:17 pm UTC

[info]hello_from_dis
2009-10-28 08:12 pm UTC (link)
oh my god this relationship 8|||

ALLOW ME TO REFERENCE THEIR ~FAVORITE LOVE STORIES~: Wuthering Heights and Romeo and Juliet. Stephenie Meyer puts this books forward in her book as some sort of paragon of true love: you should be willing to kill yourself for your lover (which Bella often literally tries to do, and in the end, by becoming a vampire, does; more metaphorically, her sacrifice of college dreams and independence for a life by Edward's side~ is a p. good reference of killing herself for love), or at the very least, fuck up the lives of EVERYONE YOU KNOW and ultimately DIE ALONE. Yeah, that is totally healthy and understandable. There's a pretty strong idea that you can only be happy and in love in death (or undeath, as it were), which is absolutely not a good idea to go around propagating as "true love" to young girls.

Stephenie Meyer presents Twilight as this ideal romance, an emotionally abusive and controlling boyfriend as the ideal man, and it sets up girls (and women!) reading it to believe, even more than an abusive bf is okay, that they are somehow flawed because they don't have an Edward in their lives. Being a vampire is perfect: Bella only becomes really perfect when she becomes one. She is incomplete until she completely succumbs to the expectations and life set up for her by not only Edward, but his whole family.

(Reply to this)


[info]flyspeck
2009-10-28 08:12 pm UTC (link)
she moves to forks and instantly falls in love. like BAM there he is i'm marrying this pale motherfucker.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]speedforce, 2009-10-28 08:33 pm UTC

[info]hello_from_dis
2009-10-28 08:13 pm UTC (link)
oh my god i could go on and on about this book and how much it's completely deteriorating the role of a female protagonist in literature

JESUS FUCK VICTORIAN WOMEN HAD MORE OF A SPINE THAN THIS SHIT

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]banlieue, 2009-10-29 06:57 am UTC

[info]hello_from_dis
2009-10-28 08:18 pm UTC (link)
Also by SMeyer's own admission, Bella is supposed to serve as a sort of universal self-insert character. There are certain crazy romances (a la Wuthering Heights) that you can idk ~envision~ yourself having, because every girl likes the emotionally unavailable bad boy (please see: Jane Eyre); but this is p. explicitly stating, "No, it's okay, these characters are what you should aspire to be; here is a way to envision yourself in their shoes so you can work towards this in your own life."

(Reply to this) (Thread)

ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]speedforce, 2009-10-28 08:18 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:21 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]speedforce, 2009-10-28 08:22 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:25 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]macguffin, 2009-10-29 02:41 am UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]rubbersoul, 2009-10-28 08:24 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:25 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]speedforce, 2009-10-28 08:26 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:27 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]wentsch, 2009-10-28 08:29 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:34 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]rubbersoul, 2009-10-28 08:31 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:34 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]speedforce, 2009-10-28 08:32 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:35 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]speedforce, 2009-10-28 08:39 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:41 pm UTC
Re: ANOtHER FB COMMENT. - [info]chthonian, 2009-10-28 10:10 pm UTC

[info]pronto
2009-10-28 08:19 pm UTC (link)
OKAY, I know I am going to say shit that other people have said but w/e I need to get my thoughts out.

This book has influenced the thinking of many young women in a way that is so terrible. Edward has become the perfect man to a lot of girls, which just leaves me flabbergasted. In the third or fourth book he PHYSICALLY restrains Bella from seeing her best friend; I'm not talking about him taking apart her engine, I'm referencing the scene where Jacob is like five feet away and Bella starts to go over to him. Then Edward pulls her back and won't let her move out of his arms. I'm sorry, but paranoia + a controlling personality =/= the perfect man, even if he is the sparkling paradigm of hawtness. Bella is comatose when he leaves her. What is that telling these girls and women that read Twilight? That they're worthless without a man, or that they need to shut down if they're dumped. It's so ridiculously unhealthy.

Bella is manipulated and controlled by the two men she ~loves~ (Edward and Jacob, to a lesser extent), but she's still supposed to be SO STRONG because she's intent on martyring herself. And the way she treats her father is atrocious. I know that she's a grown woman or whatever, but she is so rude to Charlie. I don't have specific examples, but she treats him like a child and talks about him like he's an idiot. And if I recall correctly, she threatened to move out if her dad wasn't nicer to Edward. That's... retarded enough on her own, but the fact that Charlie just backs off after that makes me even more disgusted.

GOD THERE IS SO MUCH MORE I HAVE TO SAY BUT I'M GETTING ANGRY SORRY.

(Reply to this)


[info]pronto
2009-10-28 08:25 pm UTC (link)
OKAY MOAR. And again, I know I'm ~repeating things~ that other people have said but w/e.

He stalks her, he watches her while she sleeps, and she's just... okay with that? Like, oh my gosh that's SO ROMANTIC. Not. It's creepy. If I knew that someone who could kill me was watching me while I was at my most vulnerable, I'd be hella freaked out! But Edward's different, guys. He would NEVER HURT ME, but if he did I'd totally deserve it because I'm not worthy. How she thinks about him is so sad and unhealthy: he's different when it's just us, I'm not worthy of him, etc. But she also hero worships him: he's the most beautiful creature on the Earth (but I am ugly, even if every guy in Forks wants to do me), he's the most perfect person inside and out (but I am selfish for wanting to be with him, WAIT NO I'M NOT SELFISH brb getting myself killed for him), AGAIN ETC.

Okay I think I'm legit done now.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]wentsch, 2009-10-28 08:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wentsch, 2009-10-28 08:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rubbersoul, 2009-10-28 08:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wentsch, 2009-10-28 08:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rubbersoul, 2009-10-28 08:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wentsch, 2009-10-28 08:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wentsch, 2009-10-28 08:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]speedforce, 2009-10-28 08:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pronto, 2009-10-28 08:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wentsch, 2009-10-28 08:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wentsch, 2009-10-28 08:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pronto, 2009-10-28 09:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mbmargarita, 2009-10-28 09:35 pm UTC

[info]theblev
2009-10-28 08:33 pm UTC (link)
Ahahaha I love this. :D I did my Senior Capstone project on The Mary Sue, using Bella as my main influence. I love anyone who uses academia as a chance to highlight twilight in a negative light, it makes me laugh.

Lightlightlight, that word appears so many times in that last sentence -_-

(Reply to this)


[info]pronto
2009-10-28 08:35 pm UTC (link)
Sorry, one more comment!

Lol, so my kind of ex-bffl is really into Twilight, and I swear to God she has said to me that she JUST WANTS HER EDWARD. And she desperately wants to fall in love with every guy she crushes on, and she usually convinces herself that she is in love. I know that she has a lot of underlying issues, but the way she follows the Twilight Bible really makes me think that she would have been better off not reading it.

And by better off, I mean she wouldn't be torn between her Edward (an underage dickhole) and her Jacob (a technically legal [lol fu WA age of consent laws] guy who is a nice kid but not as ~edgy~ as the semi-abusive/all around asshole guy).

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pronto, 2009-10-28 08:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pronto, 2009-10-28 08:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hello_from_dis, 2009-10-28 08:52 pm UTC

[info]splott
2009-10-28 08:37 pm UTC (link)
pillow biting sex :(

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pronto, 2009-10-28 08:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kikithepirate, 2009-10-28 08:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pronto, 2009-10-28 08:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kikithepirate, 2009-10-28 08:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pronto, 2009-10-28 08:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wentsch, 2009-10-28 08:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pronto, 2009-10-28 08:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wentsch, 2009-10-28 08:48 pm UTC

[info]mie
2009-10-28 08:38 pm UTC (link)
It seems like everyone else has the issues of tw handled very well, so I will just say:

why must you hate on Aidan's otp, Maddie =(

(Reply to this)


[info]kikithepirate
2009-10-28 08:39 pm UTC (link)
I have never read it, and I never will. Every time someone reads the Twilight books, the world literacy rate drops another notch.

(Reply to this)


[info]chelseamorning
2009-10-28 08:43 pm UTC (link)
I haven't actually read Twilight, but from what I gathered from the Cleolinda Jones recaps, the whole series is a waste of paper, and the relationship that Bella and Edward have is disturbing and unhealthy.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chthonian, 2009-10-28 10:15 pm UTC
tl;dr sry bb
[info]dogseesgod
2009-10-28 08:56 pm UTC (link)
okay, i'm prefacing this by saying that i've only read the first book. i know, i know, i'm probably not qualified to answer this query and tbqh, i tried to read the rest of the series if only to properly hate it. (because please, if you want to hate something, you have to know it) but i got through the first chapter of new moon, and put it down and said, "yeah... i can't do this."

that being said, i have a general idea of how the series goes after book one. so bear with me. :*

anyway, basically edward is attracted to bella because he wants to devour her. she smells delicious, irresistible even, but he needs to hang onto his humanity through self-restraint and abstinence. so what does he do? he forces himself to be near her, he "falls in love with her" but really what he's loving is not her at all. nothing about her or who she is as a person really has anything to do with it. he's in love with what she represents for himself. she's simply a reflection of his own self-control. that is to say, she's just a prop for him, something that shows what a good non-human-feeding vampire he is. and that's the real reason why he doesn't let her turn at the end of book one. not because of some bullshit reason that he wants her to be able to experience life or whatever, but because if she were to become a vampire, then she would no longer be an object that represents his own strength and self-restraint. their relationship would become devoid of any little meaning it initially had. i'm fuzzy on events in book two and three, but i do know that in book four, bella and edward marry, then have sex, then she gets pregnant, and during the birth, she almost dies and THAT's when he turns her. the reason why she is allowed to become a vampire once she's had the child is because now he can displace the meaning that bella once represented to the child that they have together. their union is now symbolized by reneesme and so bella is allowed to become a vampire. basically, bella as a person, as an individual, retains no meaning whatsoever. she is purely dependent and contingent upon how edward appropriates and positions her.

also, how is it that female vampires are barren but male vampires are not? what fuckery is this? how does that even make sense. if every fluid in a vampire's body is blood then where the fuck does the semen come from, seriously? stephanie meyer creates the most convenient, ill-disguised bullshit plot point ever, so that she can talk about abortion and pro-life. furthermore, when they have sex (after marriage of course), edward basically loses control, and afterwards, bella is a fucking walking bruise, but somehow that's okay because she's so in love. which is an extremely disheartening and frankly a disturbing view of sexual relationships (even more disturbing because so many 15 year old girls think that this is how true love should be or whatever other fucking bullshit). i mean, think about what it's saying: no matter what he does to you, even if he beats the shit out of you during sex, it's okay because you're in love. WHAT FUCKERY IS THIS?

i srsly could hate on this book for hours. but i'll leave it at this because it's already teal deer.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: tl;dr sry bb - [info]pronto, 2009-10-28 09:04 pm UTC

[info]flyspeck
2009-10-28 10:09 pm UTC (link)
holy shit this post blew the fuck up.

(Reply to this)


[info]ikhan
2009-10-28 10:44 pm UTC (link)
you should check this out! http://www.thefword.org.uk/features/2009/09/feminism_and_th

i am so exhausted in my twilight hate that i cannot even begin to describe how worthless it is. :/

(Reply to this)


[info]jackissuperfly
2009-10-28 11:16 pm UTC (link)
Edward objectifies Bella to a ridiculous degree, but one of the most iconic examples is in the fourth book, when Edward pulls Jacob aside and says, "Listen, I need you to fuck my wife." It's not pulling Bella aside and saying, "Listen, you should let the werewolf flood you with his canine semen." Bella's value is basically as a receptacle.

(Reply to this)


[info]macguffin
2009-10-29 02:44 am UTC (link)
HEY HEY HEY, has anyone mentioned how in Breaking Dawn they have such rough sex (mostly, I guess, because Edward is MADE OF STONE) that Bella blacks out halfway through and then wakes up beaten and bruised?

HOW ROMANTIC.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(no subject) - [info]macguffin, 2009-10-29 02:45 am UTC


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